Jane
Member posted 01-29-2001 23:43
Good to see you are still with us Enar.
Sometimes it takes a swift kick to remind us to focus here. You are lost in depression and denial. That's all.
I went thru what you did. I KNOW the pain. I have a sister that I would speak to when I was down and unsure whether I was being manipulated - she gave me a swift kick each time and reminded me where I should be. I have another sister who was good for just listening - no advice, no swift kicks, just an ear.
I'm sure you will find some of both from this board. You have to take the good with the bad and understand that those swift kicks are for your own good Enar. They are made for you to THINK.
As for my situation. I knew that it would continue because my H was in heaven. He had the best of both worlds, a wife and kids and a girl on the side. I knew this would never change even thru councelling together - no effort. I also thought long and hard about his actions towards me up to that time. I knew that if the situation were to change "I" would have to change it.
My H was so disrespectful towards me. Thought nothing of what his actions were doing to me. How could someone who professes to love me so much treat me with such little regard as to humiliate me over and over. This man continued to blame me and actually live with his girlfriend and lie to me about it. How could I continue to hold the door open in my life for this man while he thought of me nothing more than a door mat. He regarded "her" feelings more than mine. One day my eyes opened and with tears I went to a lawyer. I knew that I was ALLOWING him to do this. He probably had a good chuckle every day about it too. He didn't want a divorce at all but yet he lived with the OW.
When I figured out that I was allowing this all did I feel ashamed of myself. Then I thought of my own self respect and how I had dishonored that. How seedy I felt that I actually "put up with" someone treating me that way. I felt like a beaten wife that kept going back for more. I found that I thought of myself as worth more than that. I needed my respect back and that of others. I thought of how my children must see me and the mental abuse I allowed to happen. They would grow up to think that these things happened to people and it was normal. I did not want my daughter to ever be treated like this. I put her in my place and wondered what I would say as advice. I needed to show that this was unacceptable to me. I felt low and beaten down. I needed to gather my strength and rise up, get my self respect back. In order to do that I had to go thru ANGER and alot of it. I had to get it out of my system and I raged at my H and hated him for a long time for his part of this.
For a very long time I believed in the justifications, had some of my own too. This was simply a waste of time Enar. I just made excuses for him and it went no where.
I read a book that I've posted of often. It really brought me back to life and to what is important to "ME". When I read this book i no longer felt the guilt of ending my marriage. I found that I hadn't been honoring myself and that I needed to be happy. The only way for me to be happy was to live with what I believed in, not who. I learned that my husband was "toxic" to me. I had to follow my heart and go on, accepting things the way they turned out and to know that this was all suppose to happen. I have since learned that by this all happening, I am truly a better person. I have learned forgiveness and compassion. Some of my previous personality traits are changed. I am no longer quick to judge but more tolerant. I find that now that my H is gone I am free to express myself so much more than when he was here. I've actually healed a liver/pancreas ailment that has bothered me since we met and I don't get a headache every two days as when I was married. I have found that this marriage was very unhealthy for me and that the more I learned about the lies in the last 15 years the more I see that this was not the man I should ever have been with. It also came to light that my H had never made me first in his life and that his mother was always more important. That my feelings were the last to be considered and that I wanted more in my life now. I was tired of being second and rejected ultimately and that I needed to move on and find some peace. I have found my peace Enar. After long hard serious and a realistic look at ly life up until now and I am truly really happy. I am still in limbo but ready to forge ahead. Enar, I was a totally dependant wife. I wouldn't drive accross town on my own. When my H went out of town for work I would have someone stay with me. I couldn't do anything without him. Now I can, now I do and I have no one to count on but me. My life is so much better in so many ways. Sure it's lonely sometimes but I'd rather that then to settle for being treated second best. I will never allow myself to be treated with less respect than I have for myself again. I will not settle for that. And I have a whole life ahead of me. It's my second chapter so to speak. I have a chance to be treated like a queen by someone and then maybe I'll be alone and do whatever I darn well want. I am free. Can you even imagine what that feels like ?? I can hold my head up high and know that I tried, that I was devoted, but when I was abused I honored myself and didn't tolerate it anymore. I have a moral and legal reason for divorce. I am proud that I filed, not waited to be beaten to the ground before my H did.
This all takes time and very much thinking REALISTICALLY not in some fantasy or denial. You need to think of the truth. You need to remember how much you love yourself and how much bruising your ego can take or tolerate. This has nothing to do with "him" and his crisis because you are really not a concern of his. It is to do with YOU now. Only YOU can make changes to make things better for YOU.
Once this is all established Enar you will have to go thru the acceptance of it all. This may take a while too.
You are in for a long road ahead still Enar and unless you decide to make a change there will be NO change. Your H will likely not file. If you decide to leave things be then you will have to take your lumps of abuse. One day you'll be tired of it.
Good luck Enar. You need a time out to think. Read the book and think about YOU not HIM.
"It is not that we don't care or don't feel the pain of the people who post. Some of us have been going through this a long time, and during that time have had very little to laugh about. I am aware, as I know the others are, that there are people who are coming here at the very beginnig of this mess and that there are those who are still stuggling to make sense of it all. I am also aware that there are others who have a different need right now. They need a place where they can forget their problems for a while, a place that feels safe because it is filled with the very people who helped them survive during their darkest hours and days. I don't think there is anyone on this board who wants to ignore or not address the hurt and pain others are going through. But, the people here are at different stages of this process. Those who are further along are acutely aware that the hurt and pain they felt at the beginning is not totally gone. It lies buried in us and there are days when we come crashing. Those days just don't come as often and are not so intense. When we aren't feeling the weight of the world on our shoulders, it is nice to banter with friends and let our troubles go."
Hi....I debated to post this here, or just on the journey forum with my friends who really know my whole story, but then I thought that maybe just maybe I could bring some kind of hope to others who have recently joined our group.
A year ago today, in fact just 3hrs from now, my husband of 17yrs walked out the door, carrying one big bag, leaving me crumpled and sobbing on the floor, with no idea where we were headed, or whether we would ever be together again.
I had lived almost a year up to this point hearing every single MLC...line that others have heard..."it's not you, it's me"...."I love you but I'm not happy"...."I don't know what I want". His leaving was evident, I knew it was coming, and I also KNEW I could not stop it, nothing I could or couldn't do was going to change that outcome, he had made up his mind long ago, he was just searching for the nerve it would take to blow what other viewed as a very strong loving marriage/family apart into peices.
This day a year ago when he left, I felt myself fall deeper into the fog of it all, I was lost so very confused, I had my son to consider, thank god for without him, I would of surely lost myself completely.
I couldn't begin to even understand what happened to this man, that I had known for almost 22yrs, I couldn't begin to understand that If it truly wasn't about something "I had done", How could he hurt me this way...How could he take a love that was so very devoted to him, and just toss it aside?"
I found this forum within that very first week, I went days with out sleep, food....I drank Jack in my Coffee just to get some sleep, I floated through the daily responsibilities without any idea of where I was headed.
I came here, wanting to understanding, hoping that someone here had the magic cure that I needed to put my marriage and life back together. I discovered through people like Peggy, Matt, and John....that MLC..was alive and well all over our world.
But no matter how much information I recieved here, no matter how much support, encourgement I recieved. I could not or would not accept MLC and all of it's symptoms as an excuse for this Man who I trusted completely to destroy what we had between us, on the mere notion that he was lost, that he was confused, that life wasn't turning out exactly how he had dreamed it to be.
My H was 37 at the time, we had just spent three very tough years dealing with crisis outside our marriage, and I contribute these crisis to his MLC...but yet still can not use either as an excuse for all the lies, the hurt, the pain, the mind games that were played for well over a year.
I came here, telling everyone who would listen just how wonderful he was, just how great our marriage was, I truly believed all of this with all my heart, and the actions he was taking at the time, seemed so alien to what I had grown accustomed to. He kept telling me "PEOPLE CHANGE".....I couldn't at that time understand or accept this as truth, that he had changed, that we had changed...that what seemed so good, had turned so bad.
I found some therapy that helped me to understand ME more than anything, I found answers to why, I was in this position of wanting to take my life for this man that I so very much loved. I began to understand the cycle that our relationship had become, how the love that was new and fresh, turned to one of control. I began to understand that I had indeed learned to live my entire life around this one person, this person who claimed to know me like a book.
I have come so far from a year ago....I've learned to understand the true depth of MLC...and what it does to your self esteem, as well as your value system. I understand better the fear that many of these men and women face, and yeah I still think much of what they do is selfish, and centered around only there needs. But in the same understanding, I do understand that PEOPLE DO CHANGE.....without even meaning to as we age we change, our needs our wants, everything can change.
I never spent a whole lot of time after he left that day trying to save Our Marriage, something in me recognized early on that MLC ...was not going to be able to excuse his behaviour for me. I'm not perfect, but never in my life would I proclaim love for anyone and turn around and make personal choices that affect and hurt them.
I realized so much quicker than most, that my H's MLC....was about to become my own, that I was endeed embarking on my own personal journey, to define who I was, and what my life needed to mean to me.
The choice to divorce came early to me, within 3wks, I knew without a doubt, that NOTHING could piece this back together for me, no amount of love for this man, would allow me to accept his choices as only mistakes. I don't mean to be so harsh on any individual choices, I just know that for me, this is not love, this is not what I want in my life, this is not what I consider marriage to be, or vows to be.
I still find a part of me admiring those who hang in there, and I applaud those who find a way to work out these issues of MLC...and patch up the marriages.
Im still not sure what makes the difference in some.....why is some wait, and others like me can not? Did I love him less?....Did my marriage matter less?
I don't believe that is true...because to this very day I will tell you I love that man, and I loved our marriage together for the most part, it really was happy. I did not allow MLC to rob me of the truth I know of the years I shared with him. And I won't allow MLC to be a catchall excuse for all the pain and hurt he has caused me and our son.
I've come so far in this last year, I know me better than I ever ever thought possible, I have beliefs that are too strong for me to ignore for anyone. I can't settle for a man who would do this to me, I don't care what his mental health was at the time.....had he reached out in the right directions for his answers maybe the outcome would of been the same, but I still belive there is a right way and a wrong way to end a marriage.
I believe without a doubt it's about CHOICES....some of us base our choices on only our own needs, others consider the whole picture and the affect the choices will have.....still not sure what makes us different, I just know we all are.
My choice to divorce my H....could probably be said was based on my own needs, in fact I would be the first to say that was true.......I needed a husband that I could trust and believe in completely....he no longer could fit that role....and I could not settle for less.
The one person who suffered the most, lost the most, and will never ever be the same because of this, is our son, I seen the changes in him over the past year, and I will tell you this, the months I was lost in my own fog, hurt him as much as his father leaving.
My goal is to work my *** off trying to rebuild the lines that were damaged between him and I because of the way I myself shut down., The responsibity I have chosen to take on as a single parent is overwelming at times, I live with some guilt knowing that I could of saved this marriage for "him"......that is my guilt, and I hope that It doesn't haunt me to badly over the years to come.
My son will know this, he was brought into this world, by two people who wanted him more than anything else, he will know that not one thing he did or didnt do caused this family to break, he will learn about choices, and responsibility from me, I will spend the next ten years at least, assuring this young man that he is loved, that people make choices good and bad, that we need to accept these choices as theirs, that excuses are just that, that understanding is important.....because it allows us let go and move on, once we understand that something is not right for us. That love is not something you give away, and then take back, that to love someone is not a way to control them, and that love can not change the outcome of anything.
I'm no longer crying, I'm no longer afraid or scared of what tomorrow will bring......Life is full of lessons, some lessons are hard to accept, but still we must try to accept them and learn from them.
Letting go is never easy, even when you know it's something you must do for yourself.
I love my H.....always will, I've accepted that and will no longer fight that fact within myself. I have no respect for him, and I'm not sure that respect isn't more important than love, I just know I need to respect the person I'm devoting my life to. I no longer believe in "happily ever after".....or "until death do us part"....But I'm alive, and I am well, and I'm not afraid to love, or be loved, I just know now that in order to do that freely....I have to accept the fact that it may not last, that people will always have choices and the ability to change.
I've also believe as crazy as this sounds, that my H's MLC....was a good thing....in alot of ways, he helped me find ME again.....and that folks.....is such a comfortable feeling, I feel I have made it to the finish line, that what ever lays ahead of me, I will do more than survive this life.
To all of you who have helped me......once again thank you so very much.
To those of you just starting out.....look within....the answers are there they have always been there waiting for you to discover them.
Thank you to who ever came up with this forum, I wish there was not a need for such a thing, but thank god there is a place, a safe haven to come to and face our fears.
Love
Faith1983
Are you familiar with the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?"
You're fighting a battle but your opponent has already surrendered and gone home, leaving you standing on the battlefield, fully armored, looking lost.
YOUR HUSBAND HAS FILED FOR DIVORCE. STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THAT WHICH YOU CANNOT CHANGE AND FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ON THINGS YOU *CAN* CHANGE.
XXX, you're going to make yourself nukking futs if you keep chasing your husband. I know I sound harsh, but SOMETHING needs to get your attention. Penalizing your husband won't make him want to be with you. LOVING your husband won't make him want to be with you. LOVING YOURSELF will bring changes in your life that will be positive. You have got to begin getting a grip. If he's been gone for so long and has filed for divorce, just what is it that you think you are going to accomplish with counseling?? An amicable divorce?? Let me tell ya, in the state of mind you appear to be in, there ain't gonna be nothing amicable about any interaction with your husband.
Letting go is sad; letting go is hard; but you have NO CHOICE. You weren't given the option of deciding if this is what you wanted and that totally sucks but that is the FACTS that you are dealing with.
You can't threaten your husband back into your life. You can't whine him back into your life. You can't do a damn thing to make him want to be somewhere he has obviously decided he does not want to be.
Now consider this a cyber slap upside your head....not in an abusive manner, but in a way that is a helping hand reaching through this screen to help pull you into your reality. Your reality is that you are a mom with children and no husband. DEAL WITH THAT. DEAL WITH THINGS YOU CAN CHANGE.
One day at a time, XXX. Take tomorrow and make positive steps for YOU and YOUR KIDS without regard to husband because it's YOU and YOUR KIDS who are living your life, not him.
MizGriz, seriously concerned for you
alewis,
warning, THIS WILL BE LONG!
caveat #1: these are my feelings only, and basically are worth exactly that much. i'm not a shrink, i'm not a counselor, i'm just a guy.
caveat #2: these thoughts are NOT meant to 'excuse' anyone's behavior (including my own), whether it be in youth, midlife, or during the golden years. they are what they are: just thoughts.
caveat #3: though i'm going to generalize (a lot), almost every statement in these thoughts could be prefaced with 'most men', or 'some men'. my fingers are tired today, so i ain't gonna write that every time (your eyes would be <more> tired, too, if i did). i generally don't like to generalize, but since i don't know your h, that's all i can do.
ok. housekeeping over. let's play out a little scenario, just to set the stage.
you're a young boy, growing up in the '50s, '60s, or '70s, somewhere in the u.s. your family's not particularly, rich, but they do ok. your dad works, your mom stays at home and raises you. you are given the 'typical' edicts given to young men of that generation.....
work hard, keep your nose clean, and everything will be ok.
big boys don't cry.
stop whining. nobody likes a crybaby.
just don't think about it, and you'll get over it (or something like that).
your heros are john wayne, or perhaps clint eastwood. they epiomize 'maleness'.....they don't cry, they usually win, and when they don't win they get drunk and punch someone out to make themselves feel better. or shoot someone. they never ask themselves why they feel bad. that'd be 'icky'.
as you grow up, you do your best. maybe you go on to college, maybe you get a job in the trades. either way, you do your best to make your parents proud of you. and, you find that they're right: you may not be johnny unitas or elvis presley, but (much to your surprise, sometimes) there is a wonderful young lady who is willing to be your wife. you fall in love. you are happy.
maybe you have kids, maybe you don't. but, you work hard. you keep your nose to the grindstone. since your wife probably works (times have changed, after all), her job and yours take a lot of time and attention. or, the kids you've suddenly found you're responsible for take up a lot of her and your time. you stop doing the things you did together. you stop holding hands. you stop talking about your dreams together. you're both just too tired. or too busy. it's not 'perfect', but it's tolerable, and it's certainly better than most, you think.
then, one day, 'it' happens.
your father (or another relative), with whom you either had a deep and personal relationship, or perhaps had things left unsaid with, dies. you knew he was getting older, but the finality of being 'alone' is terrible. or.....
your best friend, the guy you spent hours with in a fishing boat, swapping lies; the guy you played ball with for years; the guy you always went to break and lunch with at the job......he has a massive coronary and drives his car into a tree on the way to work one day. or, after a sixpack, confides in you that he has prostate cancer that's spread already, or that he has colon cancer, and is gonna have to wear a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. or......
you've spent your entire life....the last 20 years, working to get ahead. you're a manager, or a foreman. and now, your company is 'reengineering' itself, and you're unemployed. or, something else.
and you look up that day and say: wtf? where have i been? who am i? who are all these people who depend on me? why? OH MY GOD!!!!
you don't know if you're happy. you remember that you USED to be happy, but you don't know what that's like now. you don't really know if you're unhappy, either. you feel empty. you feel confused. you feel trapped. you feel....angry.
you haven't been taught to recognize and deal with what you're feeling, only to suppress it. so you do. but, you get SOOOOOO pissed it's really hard. you turn cold, icy, to your wife and kids. maybe to your friends. at least you're not yelling at them, you figure.
because, THEY are the problem!!!!!! THEY trapped you, THEY don't understand you.
your wife's the easiest target for this anger. after all, you know you USED to be happy. oh, wait, that was 40 lbs ago. she just doesn't look as good these days (never mind that you have 'dunlap' disease). that was when she used to pay attention to you (paradoxically, she now pays TOO MUCH attention to you sometimes, the nag). the little things that used to make you smile, the cute little mannerisms, now they just annoy you. all the things she's ever done 'to' you come back. never mind that you forgave most of those things. you make some more stuff up. she's part of the problem, after all. she HAS to be. you're trapped. it's her fault.
occasionally, that icy exterior just snaps, and you slam on the breaks in traffic, and say: WHAT?????? or, you try to be a 'real man' and displace your anger at your wife at the driver of the car trying to merge. or, you punch a door. sometimes, you punch her. mostly, though, you're just the iceman. clint would do it this way. he'd just shut up and take it, with the occasional eruption.
will he ever get through it? maybe. but not without, as i said in another post, facing the future while at peace with his past. he needs to know himself, and like himself. if he can't do that, he'll never lose the anger. he'll never like - or love - you.
because (after all this writing - asleep yet?), he's really angry at himself, with the confusion he feels and can't work through, and until he deals with that, he'll stay angry at you. and most everyone else. he'll be 'lost'.
sorry if this got too long or too boring, but i wanted to see if i could share some of the desperation men feel at this time. don't know if i succeeded or not.
matt
estellew
Member
Posts: 948
Registered: Sep 2000
posted 11-15-2001 10:57
Ok, trying again <sigh>......
I don't know you, Bill, so it is possible that you are a psychopathic wife-beater . However, what is far more likely, is that you have(?) a marriage much like all of us here. A normal, essentially happy marriage, with its ups and downs. So yes, there are very likely things you could have and should have done differently in your marriage, as in the rest of your life. That is part of the lesson of life. When I look back on my marriage, I see many things I did wrong. I also see many things my ex did wrong. What I do know for certain, is that there are many married couples, with their own problems, who do not see the need to walk away from their marriages, seemingly without a backward glance, leaving devastation and total bewilderment in their wake. People who are willing to work on their marriages, who believe in their marriage vows, who do not look for happiness in someone else's arms. So could you have done things differently to stop this happening? Personally I doubt it. IMHO, this is generally indicative of someone who is essentially unhappy with themselves, and is looking on the one hand for happiness from external factors (hence ow/om) and on the other hand for someone to blame for feeling the way they do - that's you. To give you an example, my ex told me the reason he was so unhappy and didn't love me anymore, was because i bit my nails, and didn't wear dresses and make up often enough. Like the naive fool I was, I promptly stopped biting my nails, bought a new wardrobe and started wearing make up every day. Did it make a difference? He didn't even notice. When I pointed it out to him, he found some other inane reason why he was so unhappy. Every time I fixed whatever was wrong, something else was wrong. It's called moving the goalposts. Someone else here (can't think who now) was told it was because she served pre washed lettuce out of a bag. Now if that doesn't sum it up, nothing will.
The reality is that they are miserable, they don't know which way to turn, and they lash out at the person closest to them - that's you again.
Yes, she's angry at you. You are the one stopping her from having the life she wants, you are the one who won't file for divorce, you are th one who makes her act like a 49 year old, when she wants to be 16 again.
The good news is that it takes 2 to tango. The best description of what is needed is "Detach with love". Look after yourself, your own needs, don't get drawn into slanging matches. If you refuse to play, the game has to change. Now there isn't a script, but the same things seem to happen over and over again. So, as a service to a fellow SA, prepare yourself for the following possible scenarios, because sometimes they happen so fast or so unexpectedly, that it throws you for a loop yet again.
1)You are the bad guy (that's where you're at now)
2) You are the good guy, and you "deserve someone who will make you happy" (that's the famous "it's not you, it's me" part)
3) You start to detach, and move on with your own life. Suddenly, she is not sure if she wants out or not (often with tears and remorse). This is generally where the left spouse sees a flicker of hope, only to find that once they assure their errant spouse that the door is still open, off they go on their merry little MLC way again.
That's why it is called a dance, Bill. Because it will carry on and on in circles, until someone stops it - that's you again.
I am sure you have asked yourself over and over again whether your marriage could have been that bad, and you never noticed? We all have. The truth is that your wife's reality is so distorted right now, that she needs to find a reason for what's happening. So, either she never loved you, or she hasn't been happy for years, or something similar. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is much you can do to make her see straight - that has to come from her working through her own demons. Some people here have successfully reconciled, some are divorced, some are not sure which way it is going to go. Other than keeping the lines of communication open, I have yet to see anyone say "I did xxxx and he/she saw the light". If you have read Lost Man's "Other side of the coin" thread, he describes that process very clearly. He also reiterates that there is nothing his wife could have done to prevent or speed up the process.
I'm sorry if I sound cynical, but I am far enough along this Journey to get mad when I see the same BS happening virtually verbatim to person after person after person.
It's been just over a year since my husband of then 26 years dropped his bomb. Didn't feel any love for me. Just likes to work and go fishing. That's all he wants to do. Like every other marriage on the planet, ours wasn't perfect, but we had certainly been through a lot together -- including the beginning of his MLC four years ago when he said he was unhappy with his job and wanted to start his own business. At huge financial risk, we went ahead -- after all, as his spouse, I wanted him to feel happy and fulfilled.
Well, hindsight is 20/20 of course. My therapist has helped me see that the clues were there, but dealing with them one at a time makes them unnoticeable. It's not until you look at them cumulatively that you start to see.
Our divorce is nearly final. Holidays are hell. He has literally run away -- no comunication other than e-mail over financial issues.
To those of you who are new to this, my heart goes out to you. Here's what I've learned in the past year, for what it's worth:
1. MLC is very, very real. Read all you can about it. Understanding it helps you to heal.
2. You have to learn to let go. I pleaded and vented quite a bit at first and quickly realized his ears had gone deaf. Nothing you say will make one bit of difference.
3. A lot of people here will tell you to take care of yourself, and you should. Rely on those good friends -- and you will quickly find out who they are.
4. Take care of others, too. When I feel angry and bitter, I make a point of doing something nice for someone else, for either a friend or a charitable organization. It goes a long way to squelching that horrible bitterness which plagues me on occasion.
5. You will survive. And you will learn one of the great lessons of life -- so much is not within our control. As a result, I have learned to savor and appreciate those wonderful things in my life that are beautiful and positive. That is the great gift of this ordeal.
Peace be with you.
Faith
Member
Posts: 153
Registered: May 2000
posted 12-01-2001 08:53
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By: M GO BLUE
All great recipes for your favorite cakes, cookies, pies and deserts require some key ingredients to make them turn out succesful.
Dealing with your spouses MLC is no different.
In order for this experience to turn out succesfully, there are many key ingredients that you need to have.
RECIPE FOR SUCCESS
IN DEALING WITH MLC
Ingredients needed:
PATIENCE-You will need a large quantity of patience. If you lack patience, you will first need to aquire it before proceeding with the recipe.
PMA-A consistent Positive Mental Attitude is necessary in dealing with the insanity of your spouses MLC. Without this ingredient, the recipe will be a failure.
FAITH-You need a strong faith, and to believe this experience is about the lessons God wants you to learn. That in all crisis situations in life, is when we learn and grow the most. Put your trust in God. What ever happens will be Gods will.
PERSAVERENCE-You will need to find this special ingredient. There will be many times when you want to give up. Without this ingredient you might as well scrap the recipe, and ask for a divorce. Persaverence can be found deep within yourself, you just have to look for it.
PRAYERS-You will need a daily dose of prayers. You can not survive this journey alone, you need to ask God for help. Ask God to give you the strength to not give up and to guide you on your journey.
LISTENING SKILLS-Good listening skills are necessary for your spouse to trust you and be open with you. Do not try and defend yourself, it will just make your spouse withdraw.
LEARNING SKILLS-This recipe would not be complete without good learning skills. You need to read and understand as much as you can about MLC, it will help you in dealing with your spouse, and be less angry towards them.
Knowledge will give you greater strength and make you feel more in control of your life.
EMPATHY-You will need this ingredient as you learn more about MLC, and have a better understanding of the pain and turmoil your spouse is feeling inside themselves.
COMMITMENT-Without a commitment to never, never, ever give up, you will bale out early on from all of the pain and agony. Remember, no pain, no gain.
FORGIVENESS-You wil need to learn how to forgive your spouse, and to forgive yourself.
"Forgiveness Is A Gift You Give Yourself"
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE-You will have to discover the meaning of unconditional love, that no matter what you or your spouse has done to hurt each other, or misbehaved during your marriage, you will need to love each other and yourselves unconditionaly.
LIFES LESSONS-You will need to learn lifes lessons.That throughout our lives, we grow Physically, Emotionally and Spiritually. That this MLC experience, is a great opportunity for both you and your spouse to grow, and learn all that you are supposed to learn at this stage of life.
LETTING GO-You will need to finally detach or "Let Go" of your spouse. Set them free. You have no control over wether they return or not. If they decide to return, it will because of how you have treated them and acted towards them through their MLC journey.
By letting go, you will be giving your spouse the space they need to work things out themselves.
TIME-Lots of time is needed for this recipe to work. If you don't give your spouse the proper amount of time they need, you will lose them. It is their journey, they are in control of how much time they need. Don't try and rush things. Its probably a good time to toss in another handful of PATIENCE, you can never add to much to this recipe.
SENSE OF HUMOR-After you have found and mixed together all the ingredients listed above, it is time to lighten up and enjoy life. A good sense of humor will get you through the most trying times. Trust me, it doesn't get anymore trying then dealing with a spouses MLC, not even the death of someone close to you.
The greatest chance for success with this recipe is to consistently add all of the ingredients. Do not forget any one ingredient, or put to little amount into the mix. You may need to tweak the recipe for your own taste.
There is no one MAGIC ingredient that will cure MLC. It requires a well thought out plan and process. There are no shortcuts.
Ia m going to list ingredients that have been used in past recipes for dealing with MLC. It has been shown that these ingredients do not work and should not be used.
Do Not Use These Ingredients:
BEGGING, PLEADING, CRYING-Do not use these ingredients, they have done nothing more than push the spouse with MLC further away.
CONTROL/MANIPULATE-Use of these two ingredients will lead straight to disaster. Trying to control your spouse will make them run very fast and very far away.
THREATS-Threatening your spouse with divorce will do nothing more than agravate the situation. It will not make your spouse desire to return home.
FIXING, CHANGING, CONVINCING YOUR SPOUSE -Forget trying to fix or change your spouse, thats not your job. As far as trying to convinve your spouse that what they are doing is wrong. Save your breath.
ANGER-Do not become angry towards your spouse. They will return to you greater anger. Give love and, ACT AS IF you are happy and life is good to you.
GUILT-Trying to make your spouse feel guilty about leaving you and the kids will not work.
Your spouse is very self centered at this time, they only think of what they want. They are tired of trying to take care of everyone elses needs while neglecting their own.
ACCUSATIONS/BLAMING-Accusing your spouse or blaming them for all the problems in your relationship will do no good. They are already convinced their unhappiness in life is because their married to you. So don't go there.
DEFENDING-When your spouse trie to tell you what it is that they don't like about you, don't try and defend yourself. Just sit there and listen, give them full eye contact and validate what they are saying. You don't have to agree with them, but you need to validate that what they think and feel to them is the truth. Wether it is or not, it does not matter.
As you work with this RECIPE FOR SUCCESS, you will learn more about what works and what doesn't. As Michele says, "Do more of what works and less of what doesn't"
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Good Evening,
I see many new names on this site and it hurts me so. I see and feel your pain as if it were my very own. You are not alone. Don't ever, ever forget that.
My heart is breaking for all of you, each and every one. I wish I could reach out and hug, I wish I could hand you a tissue and give you my shoulder, but I can't. For I am here and you are there.
A few points for you all.
Firstly, please read the Newcomer's Thread. There is valuable information for each and everyone of you.
Secondly, do not feel alone in all of this because you are not. All of us on Journeys were right were you are about a year ago. So you see there can and will be progress.
Thirdly, even while you are suffering please reach out to the others. You may know something they don't and actually helping another will in turn, help you.
So, that being said..... You look at me and Faith, Griz, Teacher, Rhonda, Camille, LJ, Ric, Matt, DAC, TK and many others as perhaps, teachers to get you all through this horrible unbelievable phase of your lives. You all think your worlds have truly ended and that perhaps you may even die from a broken heart....I did.
Truth is...you can and will be ok. It's a matter of taking control of your own lives. It's a time to think about you and you alone. So many, in fact probably all of us, put everything, every part of ourselves into our marriages.
Yeah, so the marriages had good and bad in them. Yeah, so there were wonderful times and crappy times. Yeah, so the wayward spouses let you down, terribly and you did the same. So, you ask yourself, "it wasn't so bad, why in the hell could he/she just drop me, why couldn't he/she fight for US?"
How could he/she stand on that alter and take those vows with a smile and with love and then "x" number of years later, just hurt me with such cruelty, that I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy? How could my beloved lie and cheat and lie somemore? Why don't they care about me and everything we've shared?
Am I hitting it? Am I close? If so, how do I know? You know how I know. Been there, still there, done that and am still doing it.
I'm here to tell you that most likely you will not get the answers to the questions and if you get any answers at all they will hurt you. Why? Because they know not of what they speak. Sound weird? It is.
Something happened to our dear spouses, the ones you confided in and vice versa. The ones you depended upon, no matter what...........They have or had a secret life, they are lying to you and others. Most importantly, they are lying to themselves. They are hurting you, your children, their families and friends. They are hurting themselves.
Others have said it better than me. But, it's now time to save yourselves. This didn't happen overnight and the healing won't happen overnight either. A bandaid won't do it.
Yeah, they are in a MLC or whatever you want to call it. They are off all confused and being strange. You have tried to talk to them and are completely incredulous that this person is looking at you with cold dead eyes and telling you they never loved you, ever.
So now you are enemies. Is that strange or what? And how could this possibly be? What the hell happened? Well, everybody can tell you their version and we all know it can be a series of events. Point is, it's THEIR trip. So, what does that mean to you?
You are now on a journey you perhaps didn't envision or want for your life, at all. You are hurt and pissed off and perhaps not eating all that well and not sleeping and maybe drinking or smoking more than normal. Have you lost a lot of weight? I did and am still struggling to put it back on. Or have you gained weight cause you just sit in your kitchen and cry and eat. Do you cry when you see seemingly happy couples walking hand and hand down the street? Do you want to smack the happy off of your spouses faces...oops maybe you haven't hit the anger stage yet...!
What I'm trying to tell you is that you can not, repeat, can not FIX them. But, the good news is, you have an incredible opportunity to be YOU! Yes you!! Scary but pretty damn cool.
How many of us put off things we wanted for ourselves because of the union? Perhaps you may have lost your passions while raising children or tending to your spouses wants, needs and career?
Guess what, now it's all about you. I know that sounds foreign right now and it takes countless hours of work and stress. But you can make your life all your own.
We aren't the first people this happened too and we won't be the last......as sad as that is.
Remember this too..we were happy before them and we will be happy after them.
If you ever doubt me then just go to archives and read our life stories of last year. You'll see how very far we've come. You can too. That's not to say that your spouse won't come back. But, what's the important lesson to impart on the children??? Huh? That is to never put your entire life in another's hands, right? Right!
So, try to be a little bit positive and try to look at this as a possibility for you. Remember, there's a ton of help out there and please if you haven't already, please get a physical and tell you doc what's been happening in your life! You may not know this but this sort of stress, if left unchecked could come back to haunt you in the future.
I know I sound all chipper and happy but I'm still fighting everyday for normalcy. I'm still too thin and have yet another surgery to face, alone. I'm still fighting him (the liar, brick wall) for what is fair and right. I still hurt like hell and wish none of this ever happened. But, I found ME again, and still have miles and miles to go.
We rely upon each other and you must too. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board so use it and give back. Remember those things like, do something little for yourself everyday and give to somebody else no matter how crappy you feel. Help an elderly neighbor, help a child.
Go ahead and feel like shit, get it out, fall down and then get up. Cause we will give you a hand and pull you back up and out of the pit, each and every time.
I certainly hope this might help somebody. Just remember, you are not alone and if you do the work..you will feel stronger and better, I promise!
Love and Hugs,
Liz
Do you folks remember the old Elton John song "Butterflies Are Free"? (Of course, since we are all in the middle of someone's MLC, and since this song was from the early 70's, I'd say you do.)
Well, my counselor just said something to me that hit like lightening and I just wanted to share it with you all...
He said "You know about butterflies. If you chase them they fly away. However, if you sit back quietly they sometimes come and land on you."
Another way to say let nature take it's course, what's to be will be, detach with love, keep your self respect, don't chase him/her. So many ways to interpret. Somehow those few words said so much!
What do you think???
Lisa
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Listen honey, like you said it's only been one week. These are the roughest and toughest times. You have to give yourself time to grieve this horrible thing. And yes you said you cry and feel like you are crumbling well, sweetie you world has just crumbled.
We've all been there. And when we talk years well, it can very well be. It takes a while to move on or put it back together or whatever is going to be takes a long time.
I know you probably don't want to hear this now but time really is your friend. Why you ask? Because you won't get over this in a minute or 2 or 1,000. You have to feel all of these emotions. Remember what you are feeling is perfectly normal! Now have you seen your doc? Are you sleeping? Have you done the mandatory reading of the newcomers thread? If not do that before you do anything else.
It's very difficult to describe to you what will happen with your thoughts and feelings. Have you ever had to grieve a death or a severe illness or diagnosis of an illness for you or a loved one? Well, it's kinda like that. It's a process of sadness and disbelief and then bargaining and anger, terrible anger and so on and so on.
You will learn to trust yourself and you will get past the feeling of rejection and desertion. I did, well sorta, but it takes a long time. You'll find you will do quite a bit of self analysis and introspection. I found myself tearing apart about every moment of my marriage and trying to decipher what was truth and what was lies. It gets all jumbled up and confused. You thought you had love, safety and security and poof...........gone. Often times we are blindsided.
I don't know if you've read any of my old posts but they were similar to your and others. I was in so damn much emotional pain I can't even understand to this day how somehow I just knew I could very well die from a broken heart. I remember laying on the floor in the hallway curled up and crying and saying to myself. "I'd take him back, even with the ow, even with him ignoring me, even with him discounting me anything not to have to feel this pain, anything"
Then the phone would ring and one of my dear friends or family would call just to check in and those poor dedicated loved ones would cry with me and listen to me over and over again.
Time moved on and it got a little better. I found a little silver lining here and there by realizing tho liar didn't love me and claims he never did that others would stand by no matter what! That means the world to me. Do you have a close friend for support through this? I know you must be choosey who knows what but is there a great buddy somewhere? You need that right now plus you need us too.
ISP, this will not get fixed overnight, you know that. You can not change her, you can not make her feelings change, you just can't and the sooner you realize that the better you will be.
I've written this before but here are a couple of things that helped me:
Caring for my dogs
Hiking my dogs, everyday
Getting my *** to the doc immediately
Getting on an Anti-d and an Anti-anxiety
Writing pages and pages everyday in my journal
Talking with close friends and family everyday
Renting movies that made me laugh
Forcing myself to get up in the morning and get through the day to day stuff
Forcing myself to see friends even for a short time
Staying on this board almost all of the time
Getting great support here and trying to give back
Doing some volunteer work on the sly.
Enjoyed the respite of going to work as I needed it and they understood when liar would call and I'd have to leave in tears.
Taking care of me by silly things like a bubble and a manicure and pedi some nights.
Reading is a wonderful escape and I was an avid reader but that's the one thing I still can not do and I miss it very much, but it'll come back at some point, I hope.
ISP, these are just some suggestions and there are more on the newcomers thread. Remember honey, this is about you and your life now and the funny thing is that it always was. We just have a tendency to wrap ourselves up tight when we love someone. Learn this valuable lesson, make yourself happy first and foremost, always. After that whatever else is a wonderful treat...
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many times people start out in love but resentments build and over time can kill emotion, the feeling of love for the partner. counseling can help here, to unravel this, and figure out if love still exists.
people who have been dumped tend to feel that the leavers are BAD and evil. some ARE intrinsically bad. but many people who seek to end a marriage are truly dying inside and just sincerely trying to live their lives, find peace and find a way to live to be true to themselves.
the person we marry at 20 may be very different than the person we want and need at 40 (one argument in support of marrying later in life). people grow,some don't.
some marriages were never very good........some deteriorated because people could not deal with conflict or were too different. I don't judge people who leave except in cases where the reasons are very frivolous or the leaver has not truly expressed their needs and desires and given the other partner a chance to be aware of and improve the situation if they so choose. (except in cases that are dangerous, sometimes you just have to get out) of course, even if those needs are expressed the person who is about to be left will usually be in denial and not recognize the need to change or that the leaver is about to go.
sometimes people who leave have made trivial things more important than they are and have lost perspective. sometimes when we fall out of love our partner's quirks or habits can loom so large that we just can't stand to be around them. those same habits if we are in love may not bother us. sometimes what bothers us at one point a couple of years later we won't even notice.
in many cases divorce is healthy....in cases of abuse, addiction, adultery, things that go against your value system or greatly offend you, etc. I have friends that I wish would get divorced...their situations are really degrading.
I think it's really important to realize though that the grass is not really greener.....every human being on this planet has major flaws, it is kind of a matter of deciding what flaws you can live with and what not.
and finally, are your feelings perhaps symptomatic of something else going on in your life?
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Sometimes life does just suck.
Sometimes its like you work so hard, but yet find yourself moving in nothing but circles. Sometimes everything you ever counted on, disappears.
And you find that the people you thought you may have knew, aren't quiet as ideal as you had always felt they were.
Sometimes life just kicks you in the *** .....and it hurts like hell.
And you want to give up, why try any more....after all what have you got to show for all that you've done so far?
Why not just give up, and give in?
Shit you know what, I have been amazed at the amount of just plain old crap that has been thrown my way just over the course of the past 6yrs.
Sometimes I just want to say "what the hell did I do, to whom, to deserve all of this?"
Sometimes I just want to say to hell with it, and live a life filled with "nothing"...but moments of getting by.
I understand just how hard, loosing someone is, I understand just how hard letting go of someone is.
I understand way more than I ever ever wanted to.
But what I know more than anything, is that this is my life. And there is not one person on this earth just like me. And I know for sure now, that there is not one person on this earth, worth me giving up on me for. I can't help what my ex felt, hell I can't help what anyone feels.
But I'm telling you the way I see it, you only have one shot at this game called life, and No I don't quiet understand all the rules yet, but I'm learning, I'm learning just as quick as I go.....what my life is suppose to be about.
I'm saddened by all the stories from the other side, but yet I understand that all of them, if they only believe enough in themselves, will survive all of this.
And I also believe without a doubt that we can all become better people because of it. I don't know why any of us our here, sharing our stories, our fears, our tears, or our joys and triumphs. I don't begin to understand where this will lead, or where it will end.
I just know I'm here, doing the best I can, with all the circumstances that surround my life. And there was a time where I didn't think it was worth it, there was a time where I didn't think I was worth it.
But those thoughts have been long gone for so long now, that I'm not sure I totally understand that kind of feeling anymore.
I look around and if I choose to, I can see just how dirty our world has become, I can see all the crime and all the saddness that is there, apparent every day, every where.
Or I can choose to move that little dark cloud over just a little bit further, so that I can dig a little deeper, and see that within all of this 'craziness'.....there is beauty. Beauty in the sunrise, and the sunset.....beauty in the child's smile that greats me every morning. I can see goodness in people just like me, who struggle to make a place for themselves, who give hope and friendship to many. Who aren't afraid to reach out and go that extra mile for someone else, without asking for anything in return.
The events that have played out on this forum over the last couple of weeks, have torn at many of my thoughts. I too have thought of just disconnecting and truly moving on. But yet I always find myself peeking in, on people who have touched my life.
Maybe I'm just too damn loyal, or maybe I just don't know when too much of a good thing is no longer good. Or maybe it is because inside these threads, I find hope, hope that there is something worth smiling about, something worth pushing myself harder for. For so long now I have come here, for comfort, friendship, and a good laugh or two. I have gotten to know people all over the world who at another time I would of never known. It has been an amazing journey to say the least. I can't even begin to voice how much it has changed me.
Thing is what all of this has made me realize more than ever before, is that I am glad I have the opportunity to be alive, I'm glad I have the opportunity to try new things, meet new people, and experiance life the way I need to.
Life is always going to throw us a curve, learning to get the hell out of the way when it does, is a waste of time. What I've learned is you've got to stand up and face it, scared as hell or not, because once you back down, it takes over......
I refuse to let, what happens in my life take away my will, my faith, my hope. And when my time comes, as we all know it will. I don't want to be remembered for anything, other than who I am.
I understand feeling like nothing will ever matter, that I will never be able to feel whole again. I remember the night just about two years ago, when my ex was still living in the home, but going through his changes and I had suffered a lot of rejection, a lot of moments of feeling lost and so confused. He left one weekend, and I left too in a way, I lost it completely that night and wanted to end all the mass confussion and lonliness that was turmoiling inside of me. But I reached out in my drunken state to a friend, and begged her to help me, that I didn't have what it took to get through this. I was taken to a mental health clinic that night, and told my story for the first time to a stranger.....but it all poured out, every event that had built up to this event with my ex. All I wanted them to do is to put me in a little white padded room, where I could live, until all of this went away on it's own. I didn't want to deal with it, or think about it any longer. In fact I begged the woman in charge of my case to please just admit for awhile, let me have some peace of mind. Well evidently I wasn't crazy enough yet, 'cause they wouldn't keep me, they just gave me some medication and sent me home. As if I could sleep, I already hadn't slept for 48hrs.
But I did sleep, and when I awoke, I was numb.....just numb, and I was able to recall the past nights events, and I remembered quiet well my thoughts and what I was planning to do. And in a flash my own mothers attempted suicide came back to me, and I was even more confused to think that I had allowed myself to get to that point.
I realized that day I think, that no one was going to save me, really save me.....if I didn't get myself some help, then my life would be over in every sense of the word.
I had never been a 'depressed' kind of person, so these feelings were so alien and frightening too.
But it made me realize that we all have a weaker side, whether we meet that side, or fight that side......it's there.
All of this played out before my ex, even really walked out of our lives. So I had so much more ahead of me yet to go through. And again there were moments where I didn't want to deal with life any more.
Even recently I have thought, that I'm just going through the motions in this life I lead, just going through with the hope that it would all end eventually. During the months of November and December, I had to fight off these feelings, and this time without letting anyone know I was feeling them.
I felt like a fake and a phony, pretending to have it all together, when I really didn't feel like it was all together. I would play out my part in my life, job, partner, mother, friend,.....but so very disconnected from anything really. There were times when I didn't even know why I was doing anything, and I questioned myself over and over again.....as to why I didn't feel like this was my life, why I didn't recognize it and embrace it.
I can't tell you when it happened, or why it happened or what caused it to happen, but some where over the course of the last few weeks, I connected....I connected with my ex and our past, and I connected with what was going on in my present life. Some where over the course of faking it......I managed to embrace it.
Recently do to some family events, I had to take a stroll back in time, and relive every major crisis that had occured in the past 6 yrs.....every emotion was replayed and retouched.....every horrible event was revisited and finally finally let go.
I realize I am rambling again, but I've needed to do this, and the fact that I know someone else is hurting, and I want to help, but can't help made me think that this may be one way to reach her. To let her know that life does SUCK.....and sometimes we feel like we don't matter to anyone not even ourselves.
This dark place that drags us into feeling that our existance doesn't matter, is scarey as hell, and I know it. But I also know that it can be overcome, even when you think that it will never happen, that never will you see or feel the same again. It does happen.
But I know too that people just don't cross your path for no reason, people cross your path because they have something to offer you, or you them. And I found myself on this forum, because I needed what it offered, I needed to be able to discuss what was going on in my life, with people that truly 'got it'...and I stayed because I knew that I could help, through my own experiance I could help.
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I am afraid this maybe an extremely long post hope you can get through it. sorry but I appreciate that i can come here and bring my story.
well I dont know where to begin, But my husband is coming home.
I have been coming to this site for almost a year, got the speech on feb 27, of last year, he moved out the first week in April, We rode the rollercoaster in seperate cars since then. He would go from saying he never loved me to wanting to talk about working things out, and back and forth. what did I do? I fell apart.
I questioned my 20 years with him.
I didnt work {I am self employed}.
I drank to much in the summer,
I leaned on my friends,
I made some new fiends,
I talked to EVERYONE that would listen.
I continued theraphy.
I did my best to take care of myself, sometimes that wasnt easy.
I cleaned, painted and organized my house, moved firniture .
Sometimes I just watched too much television.
I Never contacted him with a few exceptions regaurding money and kids.
I detached as much as was possible for me and I read here everyday and posted when I could express my self.
What did I learn here? so much!
I learned that every situation is different, yet SO similar.
I learned I have no control over anyone or anything.I can only control my own actions.
I learned that midlife is a transition that we all expierence, for some its a crisiss for others a breeze.
I learned to trust my inner most feelings.
And I learned that people {including strangers you meet online}can support, love and can impact your life in huge ways.
I spent almost a year trying to sort out my reality from his confusion and sometimes VERY hurtfull words.
I never stopped loving him from a distance and in my heart.
I let his every whim and word wash over me with pain and at times hope, but never took action. sometimes that required all my strength.
I never pressured his descions, though inside I wanted to scream my truths at him.
There was a POW,and a desire on his part to explore other relationships, I didnt ask questions.
I never knew when or what what my next interaction with him would be.would he file papers, or would he call for a cup of coffee, a date or want to talk about a reconciliation.
I let go of him as much as I could, though he was in my every thought.
I did all of this untill it stopped being good for me.......!!!!!
That was last friday!
I could count the number of times I have seen my husband in the last 11 months and phone calls i remember everyone.
Since dec. 12 I had not seen or spoken to him, on that day he told me there was no hope, he wanted to file, he never loved me, There was a women from his office that he had feelings for and wanted to openly date.he begged me to let him go.
The next month and a half through the holidays and my birthday nothing!I fell back in to the deepest depression.Didnt leave my house for weeks, went back on anti depressants if it wasnt for friends and this board Id still be in bed.
I would run 2o years through my head over and over.
Everyday when my son brought home the mail I would expect divorce papers but when they didnt come I was never surprised, because deep inside under all his hurtfull words and actions, I trusted my own feelings, I still recognized The man i so loved who was now in this fog, I recognized his state of confusion, his questioning of his life and himself and his need to figure it out on his own.
I knew I could do NOTHING to change or fix it or him. I only knew what I knew.I wasnt ready to move on, I just needed to get through everyday. and I did.
I was forced to see him on Jan.22 first time in 6 weeks with not even a phone call.I was terrified, but when he walked in the door I remembered he was not a god, just the man I had loved, a falliable humanbeing like the rest of us.
We went for coffee and made small talk at the end of our talk he reached across the table to take my hand and expressed missing me very much and his fear I would never want anything to do with him after the huge mess he had made.I let him talk.......
we parted saying we would talk about that and parted.I didnt hear from him for 2 and a 1/2 weeks.I now had hope in my heart but everyday passed with no contact.had he taken another turn, did no contact mean that this week or this day he had changed his mind. I was confused and with each passing day I got more confused and scared.
Finaly it had happened........I could not function in MY life another day In limbo. I,and thats a capital I, had to move on in my life for me and my well being. I needed total clarity so I could move in any direction in my life.........I called him.
That was friday, I told him I wanted to talk, we made a date for a sunday drive and lunch. At lunch I told him all I have told you about my last year. told him how I had tried to let him come to his own answers but I was ready to either let go and move on or I was ready and willing to work things out. But I needed to do one or the other now, for me it was time.
well I believe I was prepared for anything and i might be here today telling you that I asked for a divorce, but I am here to tell you we are taking steps to put our married life back together and we recommited ourselves to a long life together complete with the hard work and twists and turns life will take us on.
I am excited and scared and so is he.
We are talking intimately about our hopes and dreams. Our problems and our blessings.
So much time has passed in a year that we are scared to lie together in a bed but agree to take aspects of our relationship slow and patiently.
I am afraid of having to make a old and comfortable relationship one that feels new and exciting, but we agree that comfort in a loving relationship is more valuable then first dating sparks. Hopefully sparks will come do to the comfort.
I figured since he had a apartment lease untill May he wouldnt move back home untill then but last night he said that felt like too long. I admitt my heart skipped a beat over that one.
Any way a few things I want to impart here to all of you that are new here is this,hold on to yourself, search your soul for answers, not your spouses words, If they are in crisiss their words will only control and confuse you. If you believe in your heart that your relationmship was meant to be and love is there on both sides, even if its buried in confusion, hang on to that.
Dont try to control their actions or their direction, lovingly detach the way you would with a child trying to figure out a puzzle piece.
As a friend told me plan plans, not outcomes. Nothing you do or say will effect them in there descion.
Just love at your distance and believe they will feel it.
On a practical matter, I was told this by a few posters here and i wish i had followed this advice. It is my only regrett in all of this.
Dont tell too many people in your life the details of what you are going through. Save that for a trusted friend, your theraphist and here on this board.
If you are hoping to reconcile dont share to much with too many. Because if they come back, though you may be able to forgive them because your love is unconditional and true, others may not have the same ablity to understand and forgive as easily. Mcriz has posted reguarduding this on journeys. This is really important. i see I have a little bit of a mess to clean up because I see there are people in my life that will have a hard time with our reconciliation due to the fact I share all of the pain he inflected on me and my family and on some of them themselves.
Other than that i am proud of myself and see in myself more than ever my abliity to love someone unconditionally and fully despite the fact and including the fact that the people we love are fallable, can make mistakes can hurt us, and are just plain human.and we all want to be loved that way.We all want to be loved for every part of our being including the imperfect parts.
So this is what I say to everyone here,You may not know where the outcome will be in your life. I dont know that my marraige will survive this but I know we will try. But if you go in to this journey with a open and true heart, hold on to yourself and do what feels best and right for you, The outcome that life will have brought you will include many new lessions about who you are, what you need and indeed will be the one that is right for you. The universe wont have it anyother way.
I will continue to post and read here daily, my journey is not over since my life is my journey and wisdom comes in many forms.I still have so much to learn.
To all that have been here through this with me I say thanks and thats doesnt feel like it is close to enough. To all who are new here hang on! life is not easy but we have been warned of that. This is just life teaching us lessons, sometimes painfull ones. but they are still gems to carry away with us as we continue on our path.
If you're in MLC, how are you supposed to behave?
Supposing you absolutely, for your sanity, have to at the very least move out of the house?
Here's what I hear depending on the phase of the moon:
If only they would have said something before the big speech, we could have worked on our problems...
They have to work it out themselves. There's nothing we can do for them, just wait it out.
Then it's,
I'll wait it out, then when he/she comes begging at the door, I'll shut it in his/her face.
Or it's,
He was in such a hurry for a divorce, he filed within a month of leaving! The bastard!
or,
He didn't even ask for a divorce, who the hell does he think he is, the bastard!
*boggle*
Anyway, I just spent the afternoon perusing the archives. Someone a while back had told me to check out Lost Man's string, and while there, I ran into B's story as well, with Matt interspersed in both.
It's very striking that these people, in the deepest darkest part of their MLC, but trying to deal with their actions and make amends, sound so much more consistent, logical and understandable to me than those who are on the other side of the coin. Maybe I am more MLC than not afterall...
I figure I'm going to get flamed, but I sort of want to...
Anyway,
I recommend to anyone who wants to learn more about MLC, go straight to the horses mouth, and read about it in the archives. Search words Lost Man and bad guy(girl).
Okay, ready.
quote:
They have thought it out and are trying to make it easier on everyone.
I disagree. I believe the ONLY person they are trying to make it easier for is themselves and for a time, that may be the only thing they have thought through.
I have a question for the MLC-ers ... why don't you just walk up to your spouse and tell him/her everything that you find is wrong with him/her and your marriage. Tell him you are thinking about leaving because you just "can't take it anymore." Tell them you just don't feel loved or appreciated like you used to? Tell them you want more passion in your life and ask them to help you achieve that goal? Tell them what you miss in life.
Why don't you give him/her some time to think it over and make it easier on him/her? Maybe THEY don't want to be with YOU if that is how you feel about them. Maybe you would be so hurt by their rejection that you aren't even going to give them the chance to do so. Maybe you should have the decency to go up to him/her and say, look, either we get this, this, and this resolved or you are looking at a divorce, buddy. Why are you so afraid to lay it on the line?
Has it occurred to you that there are some things he/she is unhappy about? That some of the ways he/she reacts to you are a result of the way you are behaving towards him/her?
Or maybe you don't want to give him/her a list of sins because you are afraid you will "hurt" him/her? How do you think he/she is going to feel when you leave him/her? Do you think he/she is going to wipe his/her brow and say, "Whew ... that hardly hurt at all! I'm glad he/she didn't read me my list of sins -- now that would have really hurt!" It is scarey to confront someone you love with issues that are very uncomfortable. It leaves you at your most vulnerable and no one wants to feel that way. Nobody wants to discuss those things that could be the beginning of the end. But without discussing these things with him/her, you are already at that beginning. You have already started to shut that door and are moving in another direction. Have you thought about the fact that if you are so worried about hurting him/her that there may well be something there after all ... that maybe you just have to work on it? Or are you just worried about how it will reflect on you? How you will feel about hurting somebody? After all, hurting others is bad and we don't want to think of ourselves as bad.
If my H would have tried to make it easier, he would have sat down and explained to me what was not right in his world. He would have acknowledged his depression instead of running away from it because everyone would think he was a "nutso." He would not have blamed me or the kids for EVERYTHING wrong in his life. First, it was all my fault. Then, it wasn't my fault anymore it was the kids' fault. He said he could not come home because he expected it to be the same way with the kids. Never, NEVER was there mention of how HE could do things differently to get the effect he desired, he NEVER asked if I would help work with him to get the effect desired, just that he KNEW things would never change. Wow! Now I understand how he expected me to read his mind ... apparently he could read everyone else's so I guess I should have been able to do so, too. Now, I am not saying that I am less than 50% to blame. God knows I have done my fair share in this mess. But the kids??? If he wanted to make things easier on us, he would not have told my daughter that he loves her less because she does not agree with his choices. He would not have set up dates with my kids for dinner and to "discuss" what is going on and then totally blown them off without a phone call. He would not have lied to them by telling them he was trying to work things out with their mom and then surprise them with a weekend trip ... not bothering to tell them ahead of time that they would be meeting the OW and spending the weekend with her and her family.
There is a lot of anger and hurt here. I am sure you can see both quite clearly in the paragraph above. For myself, the anger came in little spurts ... way less than what I expected almost to the point where it scared me. I kept reading that it was part of the grieving process and I needed it to move forward. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to work through this because there was so little anger, and mostly sadness, for myself.
But I have found out there is plenty of anger for what he has done to our kids. I wonder how any of you would feel if your H/W had done to your children some of the things my H has pulled on the kids. I realize the anger hurts the kids and I try to never, ever let my anger influence their relationship with their dad. Do I succeed at all times? I am ashamed to say no. Do I try to repair the damage when I am less than successful? You betcha'. Am I trying to say that I am Saint Hurtin' ... hell, no. What I am trying to say is that yes, there is a lot of anger and hurt, and yes, it comes out in these posts but that does not necessarily mean that the anger is misdirected or inflicted unnecessarily on the ones it would hurt the most. This is where I deal with my anger so I don't take it out on my kids or influence their feelings about their dad. This is where I take my anger out (besides my journal my H so that when I do deal with him, I can keep a level head and both my kids and I can be in a win/win situation (as much as possible in MLC and through divorce).
I supposed I could wallow in anger and bitterness but that wouldn't help anybody. I have searched my heart and I have come to the conclusion that because of his childhood which did not give him the coping and relationship skills he needed, he will never be able to have a healthy relationship unless he addresses those issues. I understand that there was nothing he could do about his childhood. It also means that I have compassion for him and that I ache for him every day knowing he is in a world of hurt. It means I do not love him any less although I do love him differently. It means that this is the way it is and I have to accept him and those things about him. But I do not have to live with his hurtful choices that afford me and the children no respect of our feelings and our beliefs; and I have to go on and do the things that I believe are good for me and the family as a whole because he is not in a position to do so at this time.
quote:
Whereas the partner is going along merrily unaware, the MLC spouse has deep conflicts and issues spanning years.
Why do you think the partner is going along merrily unaware? In my situation, it was because my H did not bring them to my attention. He is afraid of confrontation and conflict. He kept it all inside. He expected me to be a mind-reader. He acted as if he was generally happy. He gave no clue whatsoever the depth of his unhappiness. Now, I am not trying to say that all he had to do is tell me and things would have been hunky-dory. I am, however, saying that if he had brought these issues and conflicts to me (at least the ones that were relative to me), I would have done what I could to rectify them. Maybe they could have been resolved, but maybe not. There are no guarantees. But he did not allow me to try. HE DID NOT ALLOW ME TO TRY. This was not hurtin' dismissing H's feelings or issues. This was not hurtin' saying she didn't care about the marriage. This was H who, because of his lack in coping and relationship skills, made up his mind without discussing these issues and conflicts with the people who would be most deeply affected by his actions. He could not believe in or love himself and assumed no one else could either.
I believe there is only one way to address these deep conflicts and issues. You need to acknowledge them, get them out in the open, resolve them, learn from them and live your life. Blaming others, running away, using drugs, alcohol, sex, infidelity and other diversions only numb the pain and does nothing to help resolve the issues. But rather than look at himself and deal with these things it was easier to blame me and the kids. Now, I'll be the first one to admit that his childhood was pure torture -- the mother abused the children, the father was a serial cheater, both parents suffered from depression, the mother was an alcoholic, the father abandoned the family. I wouldn't want to have to deal with that stuff either. But until he does, he will always feel badly for himself, no one will ever love him enough, he will never feel like he IS enough, he will never attain the level of happiness that he wants so badly. It will always be SOMEONE else's fault. This is how he CHOOSES to live his life. These are his CHOICES.
Now, again, I want to re-iterate that I know I have my own issues and they contributed to the demise of my marriage. I guess I just want to go on record saying that I know it was not all his fault. I can honestly say that I was fully responsible for 50% of the damage. I believe the difference between the two of us came into play in the way we resolved our issues .... me, as a "woman who loved too much" and him as "all those issues produced by a terrible childhood."
If I knew then what I know now ....
(sequel)
quote:
One thing is certain, when the MLCer gives the 'speech' it's because they cannot 'pretend' any longer. They cannot 'be' what they are supposed to be.
Why did they pretend in the first place? Isn't their life a series of choices made by them? Did someone force them to make those choices? What happens when they don't know what they want and they make the choices anyway?
quote:
Here's what I hear depending on the phase of the moon: If only they would have said something before the big speech, we could have worked on our problems...
They have to work it out themselves. There's nothing we can do for them, just wait it out.
I think the first statement reads something like a bit of "preventative medicine." The idea is to work on a problem, or problems, BEFORE they become a crisis.
I think the second statement reads "too late, I let the problem go, now I am in crisis." Since most MLC-er's will not allow their spouse to help with the problem (because most of the time the spouse is perceived as the ENTIRE problem), the best you can do is let the MLC-er work it out themselves and hopefully if their choices are not too hurtful during the process, hopefully, you will be able to grow along with them and re-unite in a relationship that was better than before.
P.S.: The moon has nothing to do with it.
quote:
hurtingbadly
Member # 1948
posted 03-28-2002 02:38
My husband went through his and didn't even know that was what he was going through until I figured it out.
It looks like your husband is doing the same thing.
He's at the right age, and something major has happened to make it kick in. (your miscarriage)
This is a roller coaster ride that will change your life as you know it. Believe me, I've been there.
Start by taking care of yourself, you will go through emotional changes.
The problem is with HIM, not you, but he will try to blame it all on you. Don't take the blame. This is not your fault.
He has begun to distance himself from you and the children. Give him his space and don't try to reason with him. You cannot and he won't listen to you anyway.
This is defined as a "fog" that is so thick, you and he will lose touch with one another.
I hope he doesn't try to fight it with an OW. The majority of us here have had to deal with that, and it's not easy. She would be a symptom, not the problem if that happens.
Expect him to start lying about anything and everything. The truth is beyond their comprehension. And they are masters of the twisted word, so say very little-and nothing you don't have to.
You will have hard decisions to make in the future.
Learn to put yourself and your kids first, and there will be a journey you will go on, whether you like it or not to find your part in this.
Protect yourself if he gets crazy with spending money. The bills don't go away, and they are as irresponsible as teenagers-which in fact is what you can look for in their behavior.
Understand you cannot "fix" this. The answers come from HIM not YOU.
This will be very hard on you, emotionally, but you can ride it out if you will learn to let most things pass.
This can last one to three years, OR, if they keep fighting it, five years or more. Or even the rest of their lives.
This is an emotional storm on their part that they have to work out. They are on a mission to find themselves. You will have to allow it or your marriage could self-destruct, assuming that your husband doesn't destroy it while in this storm.
I feel for you, and hope this helps you. The people here are very understanding-there are some here from both sides of the coin, and the support is tremendous.
If you can, post here rather than blow up at him.
Believe me, it does no good and can make the situation worse.
Good luck, and hang on.