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This is topic Thread for Newcomers to MLC in forum Midlife Crisis! at the Midlife Club Forum.
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Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
Hello all,

There is such a treasure trove of wisdom on this site, each and every one of you has contributed so much.

It seems we have new people joining us all the time, and I've been thinking it might be useful to compile some useful advice or things that helped us to get through this MLC into one thread. That way the new folks (and those of us who need to revisit the wisdom from time to time) could have a place to start when they visit the site, a thread that is sort of an intro to MLC,or a summary of key things to think about or do, sort of a "Rules" for MLC. We could refer new folks to the thread and/or keep bringing it up to the top.

For instance, a recent post that pops out in my mind of the sort of thing I'm thinking of is Peggy's advice to Enar regarding making copies of everything. That would be so useful for anyone here, and then Peggy wouldn't have to retype it for every new person who is in that situation. Sorry if I'm being presumptuous, Peggy, but your post was one that came to mind. But it could also be strictly emotional help too.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Posted by peggy (Member # 709) :
 
Camille, I think your idea is not only a helpful one, but a necessary one. Everybody needs a point to start with, whether protective in material or emotional wellbeing.

One thing I have noticed about our newer friends is how willing they are to accept an amazing amount of blame on their own shoulders.

To our new friends here: Nothing is all 100% YOUR fault. You are finding yourself in a heartbreaking situation in which you never thought you would be. You are hurt, angry, humiliated, and confused. You do not understand why this happened, and you, naturally, blame yourself. Please do not. There are a myriad of reasons for a bad time in a relationship.

Right now you cannot think clearly because that big stone you are carrying around in the middle of your chest seems to get in the way of everything else.

Talk about how you feel to us here on the forum, but also seek out personal help from someone you can trust, whether it be a family member, a pastor, or a counselor.

However, one word of advice, do not talk about your personal problems to too many people, and that includes family members.

If/when the problems are resolved and you are reunited with your spouse, you may find the friends or family members that were so supportive when you were hurting so badly now have reservations about your spouse that may take more time and work than you have to repair that. So be choosy.

Keep your faith in yourself. Learn to depend on your inner integrity and light to show you the way down this rocky path. We learn a lot about ourselves when we find ourselves on this road, whether willingly or not. Let the lessons you learn about yourself bring you strength and courage, and a new independence and confidence in yourself that will never die, no matter the outcome of the relationship you are now in.

Take care, Peggy

Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
Hi all,

For those who have just found themselves in this situation, not all midlife marriage problems are due to "mid-life crisis", but midlife can be a stressful time for marriages. It is hard in the beginning to figure out what is really going on, since the MLC person often blames others for what they are feeling.

a good first step is to try to figure out as best you can what is going on with your spouse. It may be mlc related, then again, it may not.

If it IS a MLC, it is a life transition which, though it can take awhile, is sometimes temporary. If you try to ride this out and continue on in the marriage (which may or may not be possible, depending on what is going on with your spouse) that is a choice that is up to you, you will need:

* PATIENCE
* FAITH
* DETACHMENT
* a little humor
* a re-focusing on yourself, what you want out of life, what makes you happy
* support
* prayer, if you are so inclined

It truly helps to read everything you can on MLC. I can't stress this enough. The Midlife books by the Conway's are comforting, "His midlife crisis" by Jim Conway and "Your husband's midlife crisis" by Sally Conway. Read this book, then read it again... (these can be ordered from the Conway's website) Love must be Tough" by Dobson and "Divorce Busters" were a few books that were helpful too.
This F&L site lists a number of good midlife books as well. Whether this is a MLC or not, learning more about yourself and your relationship and how to improve it, helps.

There are things that you can do that can perhaps affect the outcome of your spouse's (and your own) mlc for the good. Take a good look at your marriage, what your spouse's unmet needs are, and change the dynamic of the relationship if appropriate. Other than that, it can sometimes help to step back and give them space.

This is a trying time. and it can be a time of grief. For those who are in mlc you may be grieving the loss of your youth.

For spouses who are being left, you may also be grieving the loss of the marriage or the loss of the spouse.

suffering a loss of any kind, you may be feeling many strong emotions: shock, numbness, guilt, bargaining, denial, depression, anger. This is normal during a time like this, although it can be very disconcerting. It is healthy to move through these grief stages through to acceptance, and you may have many feelings all at the same time too. If you get stuck in any one stage for too long, it can be a good idea to seek help. Ultimately, you will heal and come out of this a stronger person.

As Peggy said, it helps to talk to someone you can trust. Counseling is very helpful during this time too, for many. A good counselor may be able to give you some tools and tactics to help you have some power and control over your life during this upheaval, and may help you to deal more effectively with your spouse. While mlc has many typical characteristics, each situation is unique.

MLC is not a free ticket to bad behaviour.Just because a person is going through a midlife crisis, it doesn't mean that there are not consequences to their behaviour. There are. For those dealing with a spouse in mlc, it is most important to clarify your limits and boundaries during this time, as we may get pulled off our sense of centeredness by all that our mlc spouse is going through.

Most importantly, one can never lose by keeping one's self respect and dignity through this.

Some good news. Somewhere??????? there are the statistics that 80% of marriages survive mlc. If it is mlc, it is likely a stage through which they will pass, sort of like adolescense. If it is not mlc, that too will become clear in time.

I'm sure most of us would like to see our marriages survive this time and we want to save it. There are alot of good resources that are listed in this site, and elsewhere, to try to do that.

but the most important thing is to take care of yourself. letting go can be very healthy. and paradoxically, it can also sometimes be the one thing to save the marriage.

For those whose spouses are leaving them...it may take a little time and some realization to realize that you cannot change another person. you cannot stop them if they are determined to leave, and we have no choice but to let go......
Perhaps a new beginning is where this journey was meant to take you. it grieves me to see people hanging on to a dead marriage, letting other opportunities pass them by. please do not do this to yourself.

Finally, take care of yourself, and believe that, irregardless of the outcome, that everything will be all right.
 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
I wanted to add that while you will be going through a storm of emotions during this time, it is very important to get a grip, and THINK.

For those whose spouse is going through MLC, THINK about what is going on and what you are going to do. What is your strategy going to be, to deal with the MLC? How are you going to act? Learn all you can about it. Counseling can help here.

Get legal counsel if necessary to protect yourself if you are in a pending separation or divorce situation. Your spouse does not need to know you are doing this, but become informed on the law so that you understand your options and can make informed decisions, if it comes to that. You can't help but feel all the emotions, but then pull yourself together and focus. THINK.

For those who are in MLC, you may be overwhelmed by emotions at this time in your life. Learn about mlc. It is a normal life transition which you will recover from. There is a lot to learn here about yourself. Again, THINK. By this time in your life, you have a lot to lose by acting out of desperation. Your emotions are not "calls to action", they are just feelings. Explore those feelings to decipher what you are really afraid of; reading, counseling, talking to a wise friend, just knowing that others have gone through this too, and come out of it successfully, can help you to feel better. You always remain in control of your actions.


 
Posted by ric (Member # 1436):
 
I for one am a strong believer in the benefits of counseling, both individually and with spouse, and both during bad times but importantly every now and then when there may be ripples in happiness/marriage to put us back on the right track. If you don't have a counselor and feel you might like to try one, do it! If you sense the counselor is not quite right for you, find another! It may not always be inexpensive, but the price is very small compared to what is gained.
 
Posted by Nickie01 (Member # 1332):
 
I have some basics here:

*Never let them see you cry
*Never beg for anything
*Let them believe you are doing just fine
*Don't try to involve them in deep discussions about your relationship
*Don't ask questions that you are afraid of what answers will come back
*Don't tell them to leave the house unless you really want them to leave
*Take very good care of yourself, treat yourself with respect
*Be true to yourself

Lessons I learned the hard way.

Love Nickie
 
Posted by Wanting (Member # 1389):
 
Both people in a couple involved with MLC and/or divorce, and who have children, need to READ Judith Wallerstein's book "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce." It could make that partner who wants to go his or her own way think twice, and then try to resolve the marriage problems with a little more energy and desperation. I would second Ric's advice to PLEASE go to couples counseling.
A. T.
 
Posted by Faithey1983 (Member # 1355):
 
So much wisdom comes through experiancing something yourself...be prepared to learn and to grow in directions you may have never thought possible.

Believe in yourself and your selfworth. Keep your dignity and beliefs strong. Dont make changes or drastic decisions that you may later regret.

Be prepared for the worst, and know your limits....and when push comes to shove, save yourself before saving your marriage.

Read, read, read,.....there's tons of information out there...much of what can help to make some since out of this whole MLC's mess you've found yourself in.

Believe it's a journey...and one that you too will survive.

Faith
 
Posted by peggy (Member # 709):
 
Perhaps it's time to bring this up front again for our newer members.

Estelle, I hope you don't mind my copying your previous post to waddles concerning things to look for in yourself and how to handle this trying time. Your advice was so on the mark, so good, it needs to be shared with even more people. Again, I hope you don't mind my including it in our "mlc" thread started by Camille. Here it is:

"Which leaves you with some fairly simple, albeit very painful choices. Do you sit still and wait, not knowing what the end place is going to be, or do you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start walking forward on your own journey? That is not to say that you & your h may not eventually end up at the same place, and I know (like most here) you hope you will, but if you don't look after YOU for a bit, you will go crazy.

You didn't ask for this journey (none of us did) but you can only play the hand you've been dealt.

A couple of things that I found helpful:

* Do something for YOU - preferably something you have never thought about doing because you were always a wife and mother first. Doesn't have to be big or expensive, but make it something for yourself.

* Make a list of goals you want to achieve on this journey - not related to your h or your marriage. Doesn't matter how big or how small, make a list, and tick things off as you do them. I have some big ones (go to university) and some small ones (learn to use the video camera). Also arbitrary things around the house you need / want to do - change the blown light bulb, repaint the living room.

* Get some counselling for yourself. A helping hand along this path can at times make the difference between life and death (at least that's what it felt like to me).

* Do not beg, plead, try and engage emotionally at this point. In my case, the emotional dependance is part of what my h is running away from, and any attempt at anything emotional (yes, talking is considered emotional if you're in MLC ) just makes him run faster and further.

* Read as much as you can - here, books etc. Knowledge is always power, and while you may not understand what your h is doing, you may well gain some interesting insight into yourself.

* If you feel it necessary, speak to your doc about anti-anxiety drugs. In the initial stages, I took Xanor, and while it didn't fix anything, it just took that unbearable edge off the pain some days, until I felt I could cope with it.

* Remember to BREATHE - in through your nose, out through your mouth. I started yoga when all this happened, and it has done incredible amounts for me in terms of relaxation and focus (not to mention for the first time in my life I don't suffer from excruciating period pains!).

* And my personal favourite, be very careful when driving. Our minds are so pre-occupied and spinning wildly, that driving can be pretty dangerous initially. Drive consciously - talk to yourself - "I'm going to turn, better watch out for oncoming traffic". You are probably finding your attention span lacking (if not totally missing ) - go with it for a while, it will come back - promise.

* Can't remember if you have kids, but if you do, nurture them just that little bit extra right now. Don't worry too much if they see you upset - after all, a terrible thing has happened in all your lives, and seeing their mother in pain validates their pain. Apart from which, you wouldn't want them in the future thinking that you felt nothing when your h left you. They will also absorb coping skills from you as they watch the transformation of a scared, hurt person into a strong self-confident woman, who demands to be treated with respect and courtesy.

* Reassure your kids that this has nothing to with them or anything they may have done, you both still love them, this is a problem between you and daddy that you are trying to work out, and that they will always have 2 parents who love them.

Above all, remember, you will come out the other end of this, and you will find inner strength where you had no idea there was any.

Be good to yourself

Estelle"


 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
If John doesn't mind, I've moved this over here to the newcomers thread. This is information that is helpful to the person in midlife crisis who is feeling a strong attraction to someone other than their spouse.............
DAC,

I've seen you posts and just haven't had time to get to you. I gave RIC some advice about dealint with POW awhile back, and MUSH gave a
powerful description of the trap you will be in if you give in. I'll post those at the end of this.

The core thing in dealing with MLC is to make sure that you don't do omehting that is counter to your core values. You can change, but now is not the time to change your value system, it is the time to rely on it.

Break you action plan into acouple of parts. Work on yourself, your relationship with your wife, and on your relationship with you kids (if you have them) and if you have enough left over, your community.

Evaluate your health. If you have been loosing weight and have had trouble
sleeping, concentrating, feel frustrated, you are probably depressed. See you doctor about it. DO NOT WAIT. My personal feeling is that midlife is depressing, others think that MLC feelings are just acting out deression/anxiety. Don't throw your life away because you were too proud to talk to your Dr. While you are there, get your prostate checked too. It is
time old man (grin). Watch you consumption of alcohol, it is actually a depressant and will interfere with sleep. Also watch the coffee and cokes, make sure you stop at noon. These things may have not bothered you in the past, but you body is changing.

Spend some time thinking about what you want (besides POW, she is just a symptom).

Is your communication with you wife good. Even if it is, get one of the John
Grey Mars/Venus books. It should help you recognize that you guys look at
things differently. As Matt said, she probably is not getting you hints.

If you have kids, imerse yourself in them. If things don't work out, you will need to have an even better bond with them to start with for them to survive all of this.


Now to the REPOST. RIC logged on and told us he loved his wife, but had become infatuated with a younger coworker. Here was my advice. He posted later and said it worked for him, so maybe it will be a good starting point for you. At the END is a post from MUSH.

John:
Ric,
You have taken the first step. You have spotted the OW and questioned it
before too much damage has been done. Recognize that she is there to
destroy everything you have and if you let her, you will destroy everything she has as well.

I have some ideas on how to fight off the OW.

1. Focus on something else that is positive. In my case, when I was most unhappy, I spent extra time with my kids. If you don't now, take them to school a couple of days a week. Work out. Start a new hobby.

2. Find other things to do at work. If you take a coffee break and talk with POW (Potential Other Women - who will make you a prisoner you mark my words), then call home during your break instead. If your wife is being bitchy that day, call your mother. You get the idea.

Seek out other friends. If you need a female to confide in, switch to one who is not attractive to you (and you to her).

Stay away from social situations that POW would attend like happy hour or going to lunch. If everyone is going to happy hour, including her, go home and take the family out to dinner, or ask your wife to attend as well.

3. If you have you get charged sexually, take that energy home.

4. Spend some time researching the consequences. If you have an affair,
you will get caught. Most likely, you will confess or act out in a way that will make your confession for you. The lies that you told, including the sins of omission, will make undoing the damage almost impossible. If you do get her to forgive you, she will hold it over your head for years if not until
the day you die.

Your Soon To Be Ex wife (STBX) will NOT share custody with you. Deep down she thinks the kids are hers and you "help". You will get to see them every other weekend, maybe less depending on how hostile she continues to be and how trusting OW is. Due to your actions, she will feel justified. You will have to continue to pay to support them, and may hardly see them and will get no credit for the support you provide. When you do something nice for them, you will be labeled a disney land dad. When you want to spend more time with them you we be disruptive - "they need stability". If you ask for some thing, you are not "putting the kids first".

If she is a stay at home mother that has been home for a significant amount of time, you will pay alimony.

5. Emotional comitment to another women is cheating as well, so don't think that having this solemate is not a problem as long as you don't have sex.

6. If you want to persue a relationship with another woman, you have to separate from you wife first. Get you own place. One suitable to be a second residance for your children. Start your new life, make sure that your
wife is able to start hers, and then you can do what you want.

7. Go to topic "Question to Beth and everyone else (Page 1) " and find the post by MUSH. It was posted on 7/28/00. She did a very good job telling why you won't be able to get out of the trap with OW.

8. Get John Grey's Mars/Venus Together Forever. It has a lot of good info on comunicating with the opposite sex. Use that knowlege to talk with your wife.

9. Before you get too far gone, go to a family counselor. S/he can help, but if you have an OW, helping might mean making the divorce not be so nasty. By posting here, you have asked for help and a wakeup call. Your wife needs to hear the bell too.

10. Read the posts by Helena in chronilogical order. Faith is a good example as well, except that the early posts were wiped out by a system crash. I'm not intending that this be a lecture, but to give you something to
think about when confiding with POW. Think of it as aversion therapy. By seeing the pain these women have gone through, it should make it easier to think twice before making POW you confidant.

11. Keep posting here! You know what your mission is, good luck

John


This is the post from Mush. I doubt you would have found it.

Mush, are you out there?

Alright, I am not a man - so I can not speak from their experience. But my first husband cheated - so I will go from there. They lie because they are confused. They are doing things that even they don't understand. They know deep in the core that they are wrong to cheat - but right now they feel so awful about everything in their life that the
affair is the only thing that makes them feel "special". They can't be around you because it evokes feelings of guilt and dispair (what the f**k have I done with my life). Think of them like teenage boys....impulse control has
left their existance.

They are lying to you and to themselves. They are like the guy who has robbed the bank and is surrounded by cops....at this point they can't figure out how to get out of this situation,They are afraid to really commit to OW...because lets face it - what kind of
woman dates a married man, and how on earth will he ever be able to really feel good about their relationship? It is a doomed relationship and he knows that on some level. He goes to her -because she is an escape from
the mess he has made....because she is the one person in his world who is trying to believe, like he does that this is somehow ok...but as time wears on...even she will cease to bring him comfort and escape - esp as she starts making demands.

What he really wants to to have it all have not happened. He gives you mixed messages because he wants on some level to come back. What keeps him away is the knowledge that coming back means lots of emotional upheaval. He will have to atone for his sins, you will "punish" him, society will "punish" him....coming back means no escape from his
mistakes...coming back means having to face your pain and face that he did this.

So he is in between a rock and a hard place, can't go forward, can't go back,and he is waiting for someone to make the decision for him...On some level he would be relieved if you would cut all the ties...you would be solving his problem for him....making his decision.

Its a mess. BTW...my first husband never did leave me. I left him - 2 years after the affair ended. I was bitter and hateful and revengeful and refused to make the marriage work...he put himself in counseling and went back to church. I look back on it now and realize that I could have gotten over the
affair - it would have been hard - but I could have done it.
MUSH

Live your life.

 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
this post, like so many here, contained some really good thoughts. Hope you don't mind Sky, that I have copied it here:
Alewis,
My H. said exactly the same thing: I don't feel the same way about you anymore. I love you, am not in love with you, and (the cruelest of all) I love you like a sister. My H. is still gone, but then I have only been going through this for about 4 months total. Like you, I kept wondering if and when he
would come to his senses. I have quit that now. I still love my H., but I can't
live waiting to see what he will do. The only advice I can give you is what the other gave me: start living your life as if he were never coming back. It will help you begin to heal, then if he should come back, well, you can see then if he is what you want. If he doesn't you haven't wasted all that healing time waiting for something that is never going to happen. I don't mean to sound
pessimistic. I guess what I'm saying is that to get through this in one piece you have to live your life assuming the worst scenario and if a better one emerges at least you are able to deal with it as a much stronger person.

Take care,
Sky

 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
thanks for posting those very good articles John.

Wanted to mention that the Conway books and other midlife information can be accessed at www.midlife.com

Anyone else want to add to this newcomers thread? We are compiling some very helpful info here. Feel free to contribute .............
 
Posted by Faith (Member # 1230):
 
This is a very helpful thread. It may help us to make a little more sense out of this mess.

Other helpful sites:
www.divorcebusting.com
www.bestyears.com


 
Posted by Faith (Member # 1230):
 
Here is another thread that may be of interest;p
http://www.dearpeggy.com/com011.html


Is that you, Peggy?
 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
Wanted to add a couple of other good resources, not specifically MLC related, but about healing when relationships end.

"The Journey from Abandonment to Healing"
"Rebuilding when your relationship ends" by Dr. Bruce Fisher

"Rebuilding" very well describes the stages you may be going through and also helps to understand how you can help your relationship, and how you can heal yourself too. also describes well the different viewpoints of the leaver and the left.

Both these books help to deal with feelings of rejection and abandonment. Sometimes the ending of a relationship brings up other times in our lives we have had these feelings, often going back to childhood, that were never healed. And that is why we may feel these emotions so especially deeply at the ending of a relationship.

I also found "Crazy Time, Surviving Divorce" by Abigail Trafford, helpful.

Prayers to all, in this journey, however it turns out, you will be ok. I don't mean to say that to dismiss the pain you are currently feeling, not at all, but to say that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and love and joy will be yours again.

[This message has been edited by Camille (edited 01-27-2001).]
 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
moving this here by request.....

A lot of the posts on this board have talked about still loving the person who is having the mlc.

That is to be expected, and for a very long time. Maybe we still see them, so here is alot of intermittent reinforcement going on, keeping us hanging in. There may still be good times that we have with them. It is so hard to let go. After all, it was their decision to change their behaviour, to change their life, to take actions that did not take us into account. And just because someone
we love has changed, that doesn't mean our feelings for them can be automatically shut off, just like that. They have had a lot of time to let their love fade, where for us, we are just beginning the letting go process.

At some point, down the line, as the healing process moves along, when you begin to build strength again, you will begin to get weary of loving that person. At some point, you begin to feel that your efforts are not
reciprocated.

We begin to get angry. For a long time I thought no one could match up to my first H. But then I thought about how ridiculous that was. What??????? No one can match up to a cheating, lying, superficial, immature jerk, who abandoned me and was not there for me when I needed him? What was I thinking? Sure there were good memories, but what he had done to me was unforgivable!!!

It was other people who had to knock me upside the head and make me see the light, because I was still..........loving him. When I started to feel a bit of anger, I started to feel a heck of a lot better. The sad truth was,just about ANY guy could have not only matched him, but surpassed him. I realized a stranger on the street was giving me more love and support than he was.

And this was the man I was holding on to? Who I had put way up on a pedestal?

We all reach that threshold of healing and time, where enough is enough.

I do believe the lord never closes a door without opening a window. Sometimes we put a lot of energy into pounding on that door, trying to break it down, trying to get it to open. Sometimes we have to, instead, turn our
attention to something else, and focus instead on that window, which will open for us easily.

Maybe our love, or any effort we put out into life, are better spent where there is a return on that effort. Maybe the love we give isn't benefitting us anymore, or the person we are giving it to doesn't need it. As harsh as it may seem, you can't make someone love you, or stay with you. Giving does not make a person love you. Maybe, NOT giving, does, because then THEY have to give, and they will value far more what they give, than what they take.

Sometimes we feel like if we quit putting so much of our emotional energy into this, we will lose them. That we need to hold all this together ourselves,because they are not. That if we give up, or quit thinking about them, or orrying, or quit trying, that we will lose them. But the fact is, that relationships take TWO, and you can only do your 50%.

Letting go can be quite a relief.

And a funny thing seems to be true, when you do finally give up, they will somehow sense that they are really losing YOU, and begin to wake up. Because as long as they feel like you want them, that you love them, are
waiting for them, or thinking about them, they haven't really had to face the LOSS of YOU, you see. They've got you as their ace in the hole, they are not really facing the consequences of their actions, UNTIL you detach emotionally.

So this is time to put your love into yourself. You are far more in need of love
right now than you husband is. As we have talked about before, part of that is protecting yourself and your children legally. And protecting yourself and children emotionally.

As you know, if it is MLC, it can be temporary, and I know this thought keeps many of us holding on. But no matter what, in the meantime, you must do what is best for you. I believe that you can do this without alienating him, and keep the
door open for reconcilliation, if that is your fear.


 
Posted by Lilac (Member # 1563):
 
This may have been mentioned already but....
I recall when I first started searching for help on this crisis in my life all I wanted to read was good things, only wanted to read of positive out comes. I would search places and would be so uplifted when i would read of a marriage that was saved. Oh i wanted to know how they did it. Wanted them to keep posting. Making me feel better. Please keep telling us your story do not leave us, i would think. Then i would read a post of something terrible in the marraige, and down i would go. Oh it was to depressing i could not read of another bad thing happening in a marriage. Would go to a different sight only wanted the positive stuff. Try to stay away a day or two because i could not read of another crisis. I suppose it is called denial. It is hard to take.
But please know somehow that it all will turn out good. We promise!! You will go up and down but it will be ok. You will read and learn sooooo much. It will make you stronger and stronger.
I also would like to encourage more persons that have made it through this crisis still married to post your stories every now and then.

Take care and pray,pray Lilac


------------------
TIME MENDS
 
Posted by Camille (Member # 1201):
 
someone sent me an article on mlc, but without the magazine it was from....wish I knew how to pdf the thing. highlights are:

midlife is the cognitive change when we start looking at the life left to live rather than the life lived so far, and so that changes your focus

(boy does it ever!!! I've been feeling a lot like it is finally time to live my dreams, now or never.....)

what changes a midlife transition to a midlife crisis? a person who is inflexible with himself and his goals is more likely to face a crisis, and spiral into depression

if one finds himself heading toward a crisis, the first thing he should do is recognize there is a problem, the second is to recognize that no one gets through problems without asking for help. denial is one of the major problems of mlc. Ask someone for help!

what can the family do? have empathy and patience, loyalty, kindness and support.

but empathy is not the same thing as passivity, that doesn't mean you should put up with a man in adultery or doing something dangerous. you should let him know that you thing what he is doing is either wrong or dangerious or in need of help."

and just a reminder, those of us left behind as we watch our spouses go off into mlc land, we may need to ask for help too........


 
Posted by Matt_41 (Member # 1358):
 
at the request of the splinted camille i'm cutting and pasting tom's response to benny into this thread. i'll also include jewels, whose sanity and reason yesterday was undoubtedly a direct result of staying on-topic !

tom said:
Benny,
I've been thinking about this thread since I first read it. It bothered me. I started thinking what you said and how you felt. For that, I am truly sorry. Originally, I planned on apologizing to you and every one else here who may have felt the same. But as all superhero's do, I thought about it first, and I've changed my mind.

I have nothing but admiration for Camille. She embodies the type of person I wish I could be at times. But you know what...I can't be her...I've gotta be me.

I can remember 5 months ago, when I couldn't laugh at all. I can remember not wanting to wake up each morning. I can vividly remember the pain and anguish, and wondering how to get through it.

Then I found this site. I found my young friend John, with his rational reason and brutal honesty. I can NEVER thank him enough for all his help. I found Faith1983, who puts her whole heart and soul into every response or post she makes. I found Matt and ric who explained to me what the MLC'er lives with daily. I found steffi and Kimm, whose passion for the love of their MLC'ers is beyond explanantion. I found estelle and wanting, who laid it all on the line for me. I found rhondas and hurtin, my soulmates, who shared my moral obligations and dilemmas. I found my dear Lady Jewels and my Inexpensive Consultant, my partners in crime, who are like little sisters to me.

I found a wealth of people here, who grieved with me...cried with me...held my hand.. and yes, laughed with me. God I love them all. No.... I treasure them. For everything they've been to me.

If we've been flippant, I'm sorry. Laughter IS the best medicine Benny. They've taught me how to laugh again. They've forced me to realize that each dawn is a new beginning. I look forward again, to waking up and turning on this damn computer. To see what reckless abandon has transpired through out the night. It's addicting...but then, good friends are.

You think there's a cliqueishness about us. I don't. We laugh at ourselves, more than at others. We let anyone join in, and always welcome them with open arms. A forum is a place, to air your views and concerns. I see us getting serious when need be, and joking the rest of the time. Not unlike a family. And that is what we've become...a family.

I know we get off the subject at hand very often. But we need this. We need a place to be ourselves, and laugh at the hand we've been dealt. At least I know I need it. If I can get a chuckle out of IC, or a whoa boy out of Sky, or a rise out of Jewels (Not talking about Paxil at the moment), it makes me feel GOOD! I need that Benny...I really do....

If you feel left out, you shouldn't. Jump in kiddo, the water's fine. I don't remember where in the Bible it says something like:

There's a time to live, and a time to die
There's a time to laugh and a time to cry.
A time to work, and a time to dance.....

This is our time to dance, and live and laugh. Dance with us Benny....it's our time.

Tom K


jewels said:

Hi Benny:
As you can see, we DO welcome all newcomers. I was struck by the statement you made regarding "things have become a little too cliquish".

I DO understand that part of it. I DID feel that way when I first came on board. Read mostly at first, then interjected a few comments/questions here and there. It wasn't really "feeling left out", more like feeling you're "intruding". But I was never told to leave...

As time went on, like TomK says, we became a family. We get to know each other pretty well, and we do some bickering here and there. But the important thing is: We are FAMILY...we laugh a lot. And we are the kind of family that just keeps on adopting...

This message isn't just for you, Benny, but for all those out there who "lurk" and read, but never post anything. Don't be afraid to jump in...the more the merrier.

As you can see...all these other people think I'm the troublemaker, the wisea**, but you know what? It's what I needed. A sense of humor, being able to dish it out AND receive it in good spirits...that's part of being a family. I am kind of tired of having my own self-pity party, and I come here to laugh (although I do post when I have my "poor-me" moments).

Welcome,Benny, and add your own unique personality to this blend of soup. Before you know it, someone will make you the butt of a joke, and you will learn to laugh with all of us...

BTW: John Worship? Tom Worship? Puh-leeze, let's not start a new religion here! I am a firm believer in equal rights, so we have to have a female up there, too!!

Jewels

(Matt, please, say you're proud of me...I stayed on topic! I'm starting to get a little antsy...keeping on topic is wearing on my nerves!)


 
Posted by Pegasus (Member # 1021):
 
Just thought I would post Tom's excellent advice onto this thread.
Tom K
Member posted 01-19-2001 01:49

Oh, the life of a superhero is never easy....
Hurtin in Houston,

Take some consolation in the fact, that this is one of the best places you can come to, to discuss and vent. I guarantee you one thing...NO ONE else will understand what you're going through like the people on this forum will. You can take that to the bank...

Let's see now...your W will be turning 40 within the year...her child has left home...she's running again to get in shape...she needs to meet Internet man to make her life complete...she's moving out to get some space. All classic MLC symptoms as you undoubtedly have read about. Have you gotten the "I love you, but am not sure if I'm in love with you" speech yet? If not, I bet you will.

Like the others here are telling you, do not blame yourself. If your post is as sincere as it seems, you're probably a real good guy, and have the same flaws as the rest of us. Remind yourself...this is about her, not about you. Don't even blame the internet man. If it wasn't there, it would have been someone at work, or an old friend she met, etc. How they meet them is NOT important. The other person acts as a catalyst which enables or empowers them to give in to the disatisfaction they are feeling. You did nothing wrong. You may look back and think "oh, if only I did this or didn't do that, things would be better". Wrong...nada...don't count on it. Trust me...I've done all that soul searching stuff too. Everyone here, could have been a "better" spouse, in some sense. Could have done things a little differently in retrospect. But remember this...your W could have been a better spouse too. I'm sure she wasn't flawless.

I hate to tell you this, but more than likely things will get worse before they get better. Not what you want to hear, is it? Sorry. I just want to prepare you for what may lay ahead.

MLC is not gender neutral. You'll see many more stories here, of men who have abandoned their spouses and families, than you will of wives who have done the same. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen...just means most of our male brethren don't express their situations in forums like this.

Camille mentioned a few sites you should check out. I encourage you to do so. You will be better prepared to react to your W's problem if you can gain some insight into what she's going through. I, unfortunately, came upon this forum a little too late. My reactions were more of the knee-jerk response, instead of the well thought out responses that MLC'ers need.

John has also made some points you should really pay attention to. He is able to give insights that will enlighten you. Listen to him...he will be brutally honest with you. Read all the posts you can. You will find so many similarities in the stories, you will be astounded. You know that old saying...about finding strength in numbers? Well, you will find strength here as our numbers are growing daily...

Understand that reasoning with your W, will probably get you no where. MLC'ers wear blinders, and only see the "truths" they want to see. No matter how strong your defenses are...if they don't want to see it that way, they won't. Don't try to compete with Internet Man...you'll lose. Don't degrade him either...your W will defend him.

We talk alot here, of detaching with love. That is really what you must learn to do. But you're too soon into this to understand that yet. But it seems to be one of the only actions, that has shown to be helpful in situations like yours.

Use your time wisely. Rediscover who you are and what your needs are. Read about relationships and what it takes to improve and/or restore them. Your relationship with your W will never be the same. It just can't... But, it is possible to make it better than it was...I sincerely believe that. It will take alot of effort from both of you to do it. Your W is not focusing her energy on your relationship right now. Doesn't mean you can't.

Good luck to you, and come back here often


Tom K


Posted by Pegasus (Member # 1021):
 
Here is the second lesson from Tom. I think this advice is too good to lose amongst other posts.
Tom K
Member posted 01-19-2001 17:02

HIH,
I've given you some time to digest yesterdays lesson. I didn't want to overwhelm you on your first day in school. (Lord knows I've scared away abyssal and Ks Dad already with my brutal honesty) Get out your #2 pencil, and take notes. We obviously have some things to go over.

Yesterday we discussed some generalitiesEoday we'll concentrate on specifics. Anyone else who wants to sit in here, is welcome to do so.

The people in full blown MLC, make decisions hard and fast. Because the justifications for their decisions are typically weak, they usually refuse to discuss the situation with close friends or loved ones who may attempt to change their minds. This is why they withdraw from that circle of acquaintances, and often develop a support group consisting of people they have only known for a short time. Since the new group does not have intimate knowledge of the MLCer's life, they have no choice but to support and encourage their decisions.

I believe that people in full blown MLC are in denial. They typically start with the "I love you, but am not in love with you" story. In their minds, this justifies their decisions and actions. However, they soon realize that they are still unhappy, and become more confused. Eventually, they decide that they never loved their spouse, or that they have been unhappy for more years than they originally thought. They start to blame their spouses for their perceived unhappiness. In reality, what they are doing is their own form of detachment. If they believe that their spouse caused their problems, it becomes easier for them to "walk away" from their marriage. They usually refuse to acknowledge any happy or good times in their married life, because it defeats their own reasoning. They may "invent" or blow out of proportion, events that they feel validated their unhappiness in the relationship.

People in full blown MLC, do not want to even consider any options, other than those they have formulated. It seems they have a real need, to convince their spouses of the situation as they see it. When the spouse refuses to accept those views, or offers arguments that seemingly prove those points invalid, the MLCer's become angry. They need to convince their spouse, in order to help convince themselves. This is when their real hurtful behavior starts. If they can create an atmosphere of intense disharmony between themselves and their spouse, it only serves to justify all the decisions they have already made. When the spouse counters with kindness, caring, or compassion, it creates an internal conflict in the MLCer. You see HIH, they need to dislike you and what better way to achieve that, than by getting you to dislike them. It allows them to distance themselves from those people that were so important to them.

As you know, MLCer's cannot recognize what is happening to them. They believe they are still the same people they have always been, and that they are merely taking control of their lives. They often feel that they are the victims, not the spouses they left behind. HIH, you mentioned your dogs as being the babies your W and you cherished. You're hoping she'll miss them, and I'm sure she will. However, she is going to rationalize that you "need" them more than she does. She will feel she is doing the noble thing, by leaving them in your care, to give you comfort. She's proving to herself that she is a good person, and overlooking the fact that her other actions are inconsistent with that view.

Next week, we will discuss what you need to do for yourself. In the meantime, forget about the personal ads. Talk like that merely cheapens the love you have for your W. Two wrongs never equal a right, okay? Use the weekend for the personal hibernation you were talking about. Think about the good aspects of your married life, and prepare yourself for a journey you did not choose to take. We're going to help you every step of the wayEP>Tom K


Posted by Pegasus (Member # 1021):
 
Lesson 3 from Tom K. Hope you don't mind me posting your messages onto this thread Tom, but I feel they are excellent advice.

Tom K
Member posted 01-21-2001 03:56

HiH,
I hope you're ready for lesson #3. So far, you seem to be keeping up nicely. It is very important for your own recovery, to understand as much as you can about MLCer's and what drives them. Why? Because then, you will truly see that this is all about them, and not really about you. Oh sure, you are impacted by their decisions and actions. But they don't really see it that way. You are merely a speedbump in their journey to glorious expectations. They definitely think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. They don't realize that the grass is greener where you water it!

One thing you MUST come to understand is that the MLCer's believe their choices are the right ones. They have come to believe that they are doing nothing wrong. They have convinced themselves that there are no other options. Haven't you read numerous posts on this forum, about spouses who just walk away from a 10, 15, 20, or 25-year marriage, and refuse to make any attempt to save it? From the accounts of the spouses left behind, they usually felt that they had a good marriage, a good relationship, and had seen no indication of any real problems. Why won't the MLCer at least make an attempt to restore what once was? HiH, you could go back and review your notes from lessons #1 & #2 to find the answer, but I'll save you the trouble. The people in full blown MLC are consumed with themselves their happiness is of paramount importance to them. Everything and everyone else in the world plays second fiddle to their needs. But, (and this is a very important but), the MLCer's will not admit this to anyone including themselves. If they did, they couldn't see themselves as the victim. If they admitted this, then they might have to consider that they are making a mistake. Their own self-image could be destroyed and they will NOT take that chance.

Everyone has a perception in their own mind, of the kind of person they believe themselves to be. No one wants to believe, or be told, that the self-image they have is not correct. This is when rationalizing starts to take precedence over truth. Example: Have you ever received more change back than you were owed from a store clerk? What is the right thing to do in that situation? Advise the clerk of the mistake and refund the incorrect change right? Keeping the money instead, is actually dishonest, and akin to thievery. However, many of us (myself included) start using rationalization to not return the money. I've been overcharged before, so this balances it out.The amount of money is negligible, and the store won't miss it as much as I will. I shop here so often, this store owes me for my patronage etc. People who perceive themselves as honest and upright, use this type of rationalizing to justify their actions, and not damage their self image. They truly convince themselves, that what they have done is acceptable even though, they know that stealing is wrong. Now I know, that my example doesn't even come close to comparing with the choices our MLCer's make. It wasn't intended to. Its the theory that is important here, to understand how an MLCer can do all the things they do, and seem so oblivious to the pain and hurt it causes those of us left behind.

HiH, if you can now understand better, your Wife's choices and actions, then you are halfway home. Now comes the hard part, understanding yourself. Determining what is the motivating force behind your actions and decisions. It obviously makes no sense for any of us to love someone who doesn't love us back, right? Then why do so many of us make the decision to continue to love a person like that? Camille explained it very well on another thread. Losing the love and/or companionship of a spouse, rips at your very being. It creates a void in your world, which initially seems impossible to fill. Eventually, other things that are important to you can begin to fill that void. Whether it's children, or pets, or work, or activities, or whatever, with time, the void you feel lessens. You must rediscover, what is important to you. I don't mean sit down and draw up a list in 15-20 minutes. You must search for the answers, and let them reveal themselves to you.

Have you ever seen the movie City Slickers? Before he croaks, Jack Palance tells Billy Crystal that he knows the secret to life, and he holds up a finger (no IC, not that finger) to signify that there is one thing, and one thing only. Crystal takes the rest of the movie, to figure out that the one thing is different for everybody. What I'm trying to tell you HiH, is that your answers will be different than mine. The important things in your life are exclusive to you. They may be similar to others, but not exactly the same. Only you can determine what things are so important to you that they can help fill your void.

This is why reading is important. This is why going out with friends, or joining clubs, or pursuing hobbies is so important. You have to experience life, with all its ups and downs, in order to discover what is important to you. Typically, we spouses left behind discover that we have suppressed part of ourselves during our married life. Now you must determine what your needs and wants are. Focusing solely on your W and her actions, preclude you from doing so. This is why we preach detachment; not to be confused with abandonment. This is your time my friend, your time to let your answers reveal themselves to you. Understand your W, and by all means, learn to understand yourself.

Tom K


Continued...

 
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